The Reform UK leader of Warwickshire County Council disagrees with Nigel Farage's assertion that chief executive Monica Fogarty should seek a new job – but insists the "attitude needs to change" towards councillors.

There was a public storm at the end of June when Cllr George Finch – then the interim leader who has since secured the role permanently – asked Ms Fogarty to have the Progress Pride flag removed from the front of Shire Hall, Warwick. 

Ms Fogarty said no, arguing she had delegated authority from previous leaders.

Her email to Cllr Finch was published by The Telegraph with Reform UK's head of DOGE (department of government efficiency) Zia Yusuf and then national leader and MP Mr Farage criticising the chief executive's position in social media videos.

They referenced Reform UK's commitment prior to May's local elections that only the flags of the UK, England, that of the local area and any representing the armed forces would be flown from council buildings.

It led to a polarised debate over whether a political leader had the right to unilaterally command the council's most senior official to act without referring the matter to other councillors, or whether the chief executive had overstepped the mark or strayed into the political sphere by saying no.

The leader's version of events

In an interview with the Local Democracy Reporting Service, Cllr Finch said he had "asked many times" for the flag to be taken down, "in person, over email" and that he "had meetings about it".

He said there had been further dialogue over the need for planning permission following Ms Fogarty's refusal, that he had been told it was not required and that he had left the matter there – it has since been reported that the Progress Pride flag would require planning consent in that location. 

The council's constitution – the document that lays out the rules and principles for how councillors and council employees go about their business – appeared to be unclear on who would get the final say but Cllr Finch believes he has the power.

"The delegated powers which were or were not given by any previous leader disappear because there is a new leader in post which then allows new delegated powers to be given," he said.

"I did not give the delegated power to keep (the flag) up."

He went on to argue that this was not about the flag itself but the leader's right to instruct even the most senior of council staff.

"When an elected representative – and it is not just Warwickshire – asks, with the powers that the leader has constitutionally, (someone) to do something and it is a 'no', that's the problem," he said.

"You ask the majority of the people on the streets, an elected representative being told no by an unelected bureaucrat, you will find your answer. 

"The national media blew it up. You bring it down to the local level, the real people in this, and you will find your answer."

Yusuf and Farage

Cllr Finch confirmed that he was responsible for sharing Mr Yusuf's video, which accused Ms Fogarty of a "coup d'etat" and engaging in a "subversion of democracy", on his social media page but said that "sharing something is not endorsing it".

Asked whether he endorses Mr Yusuf's view, Cllr Finch replied: "The point that Zia was making was what I alluded to before."

When asked again, Cllr Finch added: "I agree with Zia Yusuf when it comes to an elected representative asking for an action to be taken that then isn't. That's the unfortunate part of all this. Press, some opposition councillors (are) sniping but they are not picking up the root cause. 

"For too long there has been a sticking plaster approach without looking at the root cause of things, that is the big thing and why I agree with Zia that it should be an elected representative making decisions like that."

Mr Farage posted a video online a few days later, highlighting Reform UK's vow to limit the flags flown from public buildings.

Suggesting the refusal to take the flag down was "a testbed for what will happen when we win the next general election, he said: "Be in no doubt, we are going to fight back and fight hard.

"As for Ms Fogarty, I think it is time she looked for a new job, don't you?" 

Asked whether he agreed with Mr Farage's stance on Ms Fogarty, Cllr Finch cited the difference between national politics and his status as a local leader. 

Put to him that Mr Farage is the leader of his party, Cllr Finch acknowledged that "I agree with a lot of things Nigel says".

Pressed again on whether he agreed with this specific comment, Cllr Finch replied: "Again it is the same sentiment that people are feeling when you speak about these issues.

"Why is a non-elected bureau… it is exactly again what certain press are doing, you are reading into something. 

"That is national politics, that is nothing to do with me, that is to do with Nigel Farage, I am representing the people of Warwickshire. 

"I work with Monica on a daily basis, we have a great working relationship, we have meetings very regularly."

He went on to describe the matter as "old news" and argued that "we have bigger fish to fry".

At that point, it was put to Cllr Finch that Mr Farage had given an opinion publicly about the future of the council's most senior employee. He was asked again whether he agreed with the assertion that Ms Fogarty should look for a new job. 

"No, I don't think she needs to find another job," Cllr Finch replied.

"I think what she needs to understand, perhaps, is that there has to be clear differences. This organisation is member-led, representative-led, not officer-led, that's what needs to change, the attitude needs to change and not just here, on many other councils. That's the important point."

Asked whether Mr Farage had gone too far with his comments, Cllr Finch said: "What you need to understand (is) who Nigel Farage is, he is the next prime minister for goodness sake."

During attempts to establish a clear answer, Cllr Finch said it was "Nigel's prerogative to say what he wants to say", adding that "I don't have influence", that "Nigel is his own man" and "can say what he likes".